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Welcome to the Scene
Welcome to the Scene takes a candid and human look at the musicians of the indie rock/ emo scene of the early 2000s. Host Jeremy Houtsma, Licensed Mental Health Counselor, presents a free-flowing conversation that tends to go in inspiring and reflective paths that touch on a myriad of topics including mental health. The result is an intimate look at not just the music created but also the stories, history, and growth of these individuals. It's a whirlwind listen of nostalgia, inspiration, and insights into who these bands and people were and where they are now.
Welcome to the Scene
Jolie Lindholm: The Rocking Horse Winner/The Darling Fire
As a first for the Podcast, I am excited to welcome Jolie Lindholm lead singer of The Rocking Horse Winner and The Darling Fire. Listen as Jolie talks about her time in Florida's rising music scene as one of the few female-fronted bands in the rock/emo scene in Florida. Jolie takes us through singing with Chris Carrabba's band the Vacant Andy's and subsequently on the iconic song Age Racer Six off of Dashboard Confessionals' first LP, the Swiss Army Romance to her own bands The Rocking Horse Winner, and currently The Darling Fire. This conversation is sprinkled with awesome little anecdotes about the scene and our mutual love for The Twilight Zone.
So sit back, relax grab your favorite beverage, and let me welcome you to the scene.
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Hey everyone, welcome to the scene, your favorite podcast about the post-hardcore emo scene in the early 2000s, with the band's band members and just about anybody else who was involved. I'm your host, jeremy Hautma. Today is an exciting day. It's an exciting podcast because we have our first female guest. You might recognize her as the female voice on Age 6, racer by Dashboard Confessional on the Swiss Army Romance album, or as the lead singer of the band the Rocking Horse winner, or as the lead singer of the band the Darling Fire. My guest is Jolie Lindholm. We had a fantastic conversation when I do with most of my guests, but this one was special because Jolie is our first female guest and she brings a unique perspective to the scene. Enough of me talking, let's just get to the interview and let me welcome you to the scene. Hello, hello.
Speaker 2:Hello Hi.
Speaker 1:I cannot see you. I was gonna say, if you'd rather remain anonymous.
Speaker 2:No, it's okay, you can do it with your nice background.
Speaker 1:You get a nice background of my messy garage hey whatever.
Speaker 2:Sorry about that. No, it's a fake background.
Speaker 1:Maybe I should do that too. So we are recording just to let you know which I tend to forget to tell people that. So, like, has the interview started Right? Yes, yes, yes, it has. So thank you for being so patient with me. I was just setting up my microphone and all that good stuff, no problem. And for moving stuff around, I appreciate that that was a little hectic for me.
Speaker 2:Sure sure.
Speaker 1:My kiddo woke up one morning and just had like a rash all over the place and my dad was coming. We were leaving for New Orleans and it was just it was it was yeah, no problem at all. Have you been to New Orleans before?
Speaker 2:A long time ago with Rocking Horse, but I barely remember that one show, I think for the one time we were there.
Speaker 1:Because you are. You're in Georgia, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, right now I'm in Georgia, yep.
Speaker 1:Okay, but you were originally from Florida.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Okay, from.
Speaker 2:South Florida.
Speaker 1:Okay, pompano or.
Speaker 2:Actually moved all over, but mostly Palm Beach County.
Speaker 1:I used to so like West Palm. Yes, I used to vacation in West Palm all the time as a kid Okay, don't ask me why, because it's like retirement central, but yeah, our family had had friends who had a condo there and they would kind of let us just go down there and use it. What I remember specifically is that, like clockwork in the summer, at about like five o'clock, there was always like a huge rainstorm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1:That's what I remember mostly. That's true, yep, but you're currently in Georgia. How long have you lived there for?
Speaker 2:We've only been here, for actually we've been here since February, but we actually officially moved in. I guess it was like May.
Speaker 1:Okay, we're about. We officially.
Speaker 2:Atlanta.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So not far from downtown, atlanta is pretty big actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so different sections.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we're, we're in like a pretty cool little artsy area.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:And it's like night and day from where we were in Florida. Oh, is it Were you in more of like a rural type of area, or yeah, before we left we were kind of near Fort Lauderdale, okay, but it was like, and then we were before that we were in what's called Port St Lucy and that was very like spread out and not much there.
Speaker 1:Yeah To do. Do you mind me asking why? Why you guys moved to Georgia?
Speaker 2:It's a long story, but basically I mean we we've been trying to leave Florida for a while. Like he said, it's the retirement capital. You know, we were just kind of bored there and tired of it and so like we needed to change scenery.
Speaker 1:It. You know I've kind of found. So I live in right outside Portland, oregon, in Vancouver, washington, so you know the West Coast mostly isn't well, I would say. For the most part it's like incredibly progressive. But like even being in Louisiana and other parts of the South, you know it's it's very much like cities, even with, like I went to go, I went to furnace fest in 21. And even that like Birmingham, new Orleans kind of some things in the deeper South, like the more city issue get, the more it's like progressive and I would. I you know like some of it was surprising to me because I originally grew up in New Jersey too. That was where I spent like until my 12 was like 23. So I was always in areas and then I remember when we went to I was like we were in this bar and it was like feminism all over the place and I was like thinking I was like this is really cool, like I really did this, but I was not expecting this in Birmingham, for sure.
Speaker 1:So kind of how I style views is more of like an like an open dialogue type of Sure, and if there's things that you're just like, you know I'm not comfortable, you know, or I don't want to talk about that, that's really fine. I'm a therapist, so I will not try and therapist you, it's, it's. It's not what I it's not. It's more my therapy. I tell people that with people and you know, just, I don't know, it's my own form of therapy, people, people that I really admire or use. Music has kind of like touched me, so it's, you know, this is my deal.
Speaker 2:I'm just being selfish, yeah, that's awesome, it's like a therapy, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I guess I'm going to start out. I was like literally 20 minutes ago listening to recovering the satellites by the counting crows, which is like one of my favorite albums or just like my favorite bands. That really got me into music in the first place, and so it's kind of for you, julie, like what. What were some like early musical, like influences, or just like albums or bands that you found yourself being drawn to and just like inspiring you, I suppose.
Speaker 2:Sure. So my sound, my taste is like all over the place a little bit, but I would say like, as far as like this scene goes, I guess you could say I first was listening to a lot of punk stuff, like I wore out like the first rancid album, and then I started to listen to more like hardcore, and then I was listening to like cave in.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I just like went into a little bit of softer music. So then I was listening to like early Jimmy world.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And stuff like that. But my sound, my taste has been all over the place. I mean, my earliest memories are like 70s rock and the Beatles, because my parents listened to that. That's what they were always playing in the house and I would. That's like the first things that I would sing along to were Beatles songs. So, but my taste has been like all over the place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, but I have very specific albums that, like I wore out like Siamese dreams, matthew pumpkins you know, cave in the second album? I think it will, or maybe it was the first album, and rancid the first album. Those are like. And then, of course, clarity, Jimmy world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, great, great album.
Speaker 2:So, as you can see, that's a little bit all over the place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean you know a lot of the people. So I would say a big theme from people that I've talked to and I don't know if you even had a chance to check out anything but just like some of the people that I that I talked to, siamese dream is always a huge influence. Yes, yeah, so I've talked. I've talked to Joe from beloved and advent. I talked to what I talked to Jason Gleason. I've talked to Zach Gehring from May and Josh Brigham from hopes fall and you know, some of those interviews got really weird. Like Zach and I talked about like philosophy and theology for a solid hour. So that's what I say.
Speaker 1:It's like a little bit less structured. So I'm not necessarily even looking for things that like pertain to the quote unquote scene, like I think it's awesome that your influence is all over the place. I would say that for myself, like Beach Boys in Motown, like growing up was like what my dad listened to in the car all the time, and so those were like my earliest, like memories. But Siamese dream I think today was literally the first guitar like I ever learned that my brother taught me. You know that little intro, the you know.
Speaker 1:So it it's a huge influence on a lot of people. So it just it's a theme that just like keeps coming up like over and over again, and so you okay. So if you're citing, like Kaven and Jimmy world, like clarity came out in, like I'm going to say like 98, 99, maybe yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, and the cave and album also was 99, I think was it. Yeah, the one that I listened to like crazy. So just something about there and it's weird because, like I've said this before in interviews, I think, but like usually I feel like I need my brain, needs like a certain structure to songs. For some reason I had to like, really like connect with them, but as far as their music goes, it's like it kind of like shifts all over the place.
Speaker 2:Some of the songs that I loved on that album and but something about it just like really got me and I just that's like probably one of the few at that time that I would listen to. That was so different from what I was used to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I mean, like early, early on, were you interested in singing or were you interested in just music in general, like what was the first bands or stuff that you cut, that you like started playing with, or like, were you a vocalist originally?
Speaker 2:I wasn't actually I didn't really like set out to do anything with music. I always like to sing by myself, but I didn't really or I like to sing along to things. You know, I didn't really aspire to be a musician or learn any instruments or really take vocal lessons or do any of that stuff I've. You know, I was in chorus when I was in school and I tried to join this group called the quarter tones and they wouldn't put me in because I didn't want to do chorus at that point. So so the DJ said no.
Speaker 1:They're a boss.
Speaker 2:I remember he gave me like an eight out of 10. He rated me an eight out of 10, but he was like I'm sorry, but you can't join because you're not in chorus right now, so but that was like the popular kids thing. Yeah, that wasn't me, by the way, so you know wait, wait, hold on, hold on.
Speaker 1:Let me get the string that the popular kids thing was to be in the quarter tones.
Speaker 2:I mean, it was like a popularity contest. Like it was almost like a click of girls would got into that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And and I wasn't in that click you know they were like popular kids at that time.
Speaker 1:Gotcha.
Speaker 2:But what's funny is that none of them went on to do any music at all that I know of. I mean, I still keep in contact with some of those people you know through social media and stuff, and I don't think any of them really went on to do anything with music at all. So it's an interesting twist.
Speaker 1:It's, it's really yeah, but I mostly see teenagers and like young adults who are like going into college or, you know, are in high school and what people are into at that point in life, or just like even hardcore like doing, and then once they kind of get out of high school they just kind of like just never touched that again. Yeah, it's life, yeah, yeah, yeah you know, I guess I'm done with that, you know yeah, and interest change and things like that.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and I loved that at that time but I didn't like want to get into it. You know was like something that I pursued after that, possibly because I was turned down at that time, I don't know, maybe. But then later on, you know, when I was in college, that's when I was asked to be in the vacant Andy or not be in but sing with the vacant Andy's a certain cover song. That was Chris Caraba's early band and that's where I went from there basically. I mean, that's that was the earliest thing I didn't really do. I wasn't like in bands when I was in high school or even, you know, really early college or anything.
Speaker 1:Well, tell me about that, Like, how did you get hooked up with the vacant Andy's?
Speaker 2:Just from meeting people at school. You know, chris was in one of my classes in college and then we kind of met that way and then I just kind of started hanging out with those guys and then that's how I just kind of got into that. I'm not sure, I think maybe my roommate at the time, one of them heard me singing to something and suggested it. I'm not sure, can't remember exactly, but something like that, right.
Speaker 1:And fell into it and so did. Did they ask you? Did Chris or the guys ask you like hey, do you want to come just sing on the song? Or like we need a female voice?
Speaker 2:That's what it was, yeah it was for backup, yeah, and at that time, you know, I was like that was a brand new thing to me. So then they started having me join them on stage when they would cover that song and and that was nerve wracking that was my earliest introduction.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I don't know, like it's always nerve wracking, right, but like at the same, at the same time, was there? I mean, how did you enjoy performing? Was it solely just like nerve wracking the entire time, or was it like? No, I kind of dig this and this is something that I I don't know like I've never feel more alive than when I'm performing. I'm also scared as hell, like during it and beforehand, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like a roller coaster, like you don't. It's this nervous anticipation. And then, once you're in it, you're like, okay, you know, this is, I'm up here and might as well, you know, do the best I can or whatever. So yeah, I mean that's how it is. It's like this nervous anticipation. And once you're up there and it's happening, you're just everything else just kind of falls away. Yeah, nerves after a little bit.
Speaker 1:Well, me and Jason Glatham are like kind of talking a little bit at one point about how you kind of like not you but the royal you Sometimes enter this kind of like weird for some people, weird like spiritual, like ethereal space and like, before you know it, like you're just there and then before you know it, it's like a disassociation and then you're like, oh wait, like it's, it's done, like like what, what?
Speaker 1:just happened, type of thing. Yeah, and I think think there's something like other worldly about about that, you know, and Jason was like, if somebody knows what to define that as like I mean, I don't know, it's just it's an awesome space to be, but a weird space at the same time, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's almost. It is kind of like an out of body experience a little bit. Now it's like, it's like you just, and then, when it's over, you're like well, shit, it's over too quick, I want to keep going, you know yeah. And especially like if we go on any kind of length of time.
Speaker 1:You know, if we do any kind of tour or anything, by the end of it you're like really in it and you're resonating with it, and then it's over you know there's this thing too, I think from an outside perspective, and I was talking to Josh from Hope's Fall about this one time, like I had always wondered, like I didn't play in bands but I never played in like any popular band that hit anybody want to sing along to our music, but I was. I was asking him specifically at like Furnace Fest, and this kind of like lapsed in my memory because I was like addressing it as a fan versus as a musician. But I was like what's it like to like view the crowd and to like if they're like singing and like all that stuff. And Josh was like I don't know, because the entire time all I'm thinking about is I can't hear myself, or like I, you know, like like I think he said the, the, the Furnace Fest was.
Speaker 1:He was like I didn't really enjoy myself because I couldn't hear anything, you know what type of thing. And I was like, right, I, because I play music, I, you know it's like I remember most of the time just being concerned about whether or not I could hear the drums or the bass or like are we on time, are we, you know, like anything like that. And that was kind of like a weird shift for me because I was like, oh, like, I don't even know if I would recognize like unless maybe you're fronting right where you're interacting with the crowd and and things like that Like there's this other space of technicality and and kind of, you know, do we, do we sound good? What did?
Speaker 2:the shit like you know, I don't know, but people are just out there enjoying themselves, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I find like once everything's kind of going and I know that everybody's doing that part and everything sounds great and I really only need to hear mainly the drums usually live, because that keeps me in time. But like once you're everybody's doing that part and they're good and everything's working. I sometimes I do kind of like take stock of what's happening in the room and look at people in it and it's weird to just take a moment to like recognize that. You know, and if you see anybody singing along, that's just an awesome feeling. Yeah, that's you know, because it takes something for them to do that. I mean, you know that's they're kind of lost in the moment and they're losing themselves and that they don't care about what's going on around them either. You know, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:I think it's. It's. It's really. I spoke when I spoke to Jason.
Speaker 1:I think one of the most surreal experiences and probably most exciting experiences for me was I was at a further show in a long time ago and I think it was right after how to start, fire came out and he's he's an amazing performer.
Speaker 1:He's like one of my favorite frontman just as far as his stage presence and stuff like that. And there was a point where he was throwing the mic into the crowd and I could hear my own voice over the PA system and I was like that, like that was something so amazing and he was kind of you know, it was a different experience for him, but it was experience he was providing for me and other people in the audience, where that's divide between you know, the band and fan or whatever you want to say, just kind of crumbles for a second and it's like you're a part, you're part of it, right, like you're part of the music you're part of like, like what we're, what we're doing, and that was an incredible experience and I don't know. I just want to ask you, like for you, what are some of your favorite bands that you've seen live or just like blew you out of the water, whether that's huge bands or small bands, or your bet.
Speaker 2:Well, okay, when we played furnace fest last year we got to see the only band that I had a chance to really watch was quicksand, and that that was awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Amazing so good.
Speaker 1:I am a Walter Schreifels like fan boy to the max and like I drove five hours to go see rival schools like and. I saw I saw quicksand in their first reunion tour I think was like 2011 in New York and that was was so awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're so, so amazing. And then you know, honestly, we just watched somebody that we've met, you know recently, michael Malarkey.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I've heard of him.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, definitely check it out. His solo stuff, like we just saw him here at kind of an intimate venue, and his live, like he just completely nailed it. It was such an intimate experience and everybody was totally silent, which was odd for me at an acoustic show, for to be completely silent uses, yeah, usually there's some chatter, you know, but this happens to be a venue here called Eddie's attic and they there's a specific. There's like a letter on the wall basically telling everybody to respect the artist and keep the I appreciate conversation quiet much.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it was just amazing to hear every inflection and just emotion. The live performance was just completely blew us all, blew me away, and my husband I actually. And so those, you know, those are like two of my favorite recent memories. I remember when we played with further, actually at the social in Orlando Speaking of further, when they played New Year's project, you know, I went down into the pit with everybody and everybody's singing along. That was like magical.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know just being with everybody singing that. You know that's. There's something about that too. You know, when the audience went, you're part of that and you're all singing along. It was pretty awesome.
Speaker 1:I feel like that.
Speaker 1:That again, I guess part of the reason that I wanted to focus so much on that era specifically was was because of that.
Speaker 1:Because of that, that small like I have a really hard time in big venues, you know. Or even like, if I want to go see cocaine in Cambria, like I saw them a long time ago in a really small venue, right, and like before they were huge or like and any of these places it's like it's would be really hard for me to go from that to seeing them in like a large, like stadium or something you know, and not because one is better than the other, but it's there's something special about whatever like that experience, right, it's an intimate, very intimate experience. Like I got to see Jeremy Enoch in a really really, really small club in Bellingham, washington, which is where I lived, and like that was by far one of the best experiences I've I've ever had at a show, because it was just him in the guitar and it was just otherworldly. You know, and I've seen Mike Cansella a couple times in and I don't know if you know Mike from American football.
Speaker 2:No no.
Speaker 1:So he's, he's. I always tell people like I love his band is. He was the guitarist singer for American football. I'm assuming you know them.
Speaker 1:And then he's got a solo project called, called Owen. That he does and his music he's amazingly talented. It's like half mostly acoustic, but I was talking to somebody the other day about this but like he just sings about I don't know, just like either it's literature or he sings about like just a mundane of being a parent or you know, like all these things that like touch me right where I'm at like turning 40 and like I have to get to my own and you know, there's something about taking the mundane and making it incredibly beautiful, right. That is just yeah, awesome. But I can tell you I really appreciate that sign because there's been way too many shows that I've been to where, like, everybody is talking and I can't even enjoy the show, you know it's, it's it's really difficult.
Speaker 1:Yeah, quick, that quick stand show I went to. There was this guy who was just chattering nonstop.
Speaker 2:And like I was just like like you know. You know, what's funny is that? So we saw them at furnace fest. I saw them a long time ago in New York when I because I'm actually from Long Island, so I went to the city to see them play and that's like one of the few bigger shows that I remember from that time, because there was somebody near the stage that kept bumping into me the whole time and I remember that more than I remember the performance, because it was so distracting.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:Because they were get. You know, they were in their moment and everything. That's fine, but they just kept bumping into me and for it's just a funny like inside joke that my friend and I have that at that time we went together to that show and it was like that's one of the memories that I have, yeah, of that time, you know, because of that kind of stuff, but so you're from Long Island. I am from South of Miami.
Speaker 1:Has its own history scene.
Speaker 2:In a lot of ways.
Speaker 1:And I was actually just talking to my friend, joe from a band called Edison Glass, like a little while yesterday, and he was. He lived on my college floor or whatever, and they're from that area too. And so I mean, I grew up in New Jersey, so I'm like Burden County, right outside New York City and like what, like I don't know. It's always fun when you meet other people from the East Coast because there's just this kind of different vibe that goes on, especially from the West Coast. But I mean, did you move?
Speaker 2:to.
Speaker 1:Florida. How old were you though?
Speaker 2:When I went to college, actually 17. I graduated when I was 17. I came down when I was 17 to go to start college and, yeah, so I was. But I would go back to Long Island and go to shows and stuff like that, because I still had my best friend was there at the time and, yeah, so we would go into the city. We go to shows all the time. We went to a lot of Long Island shows. Actually, long Island like 25 to life. That band would play like every show.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:You know, do you remember?
Speaker 1:that I don't, I know. Okay, I'm just nodding my head like I do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, I remember 25 to life played every show so but yeah, I played. I went to a lot of shows on the island and also in the city and yeah, it was totally different scene than Florida, totally different?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, I was. You know. It's interesting because I was talking with Jake about that, which is the one who I mean. Jake was the one who told me to contact you.
Speaker 2:He was like okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Spoiler, I'm going to ask you a question at the end, so just keep this in mind. I ask, I ask, guess, like do you have anybody? If you enjoy the interview, if you have anybody who you would like recommend at the end? Like hey, you should get in touch with this person, like I think they might enjoy it. If not, that's totally fine too. I'd a lot of. You know, I always reach out to people with a knowledge of like I'm in, I'm nobody, so like there's no reason why you should even talk to me. But if I, you know, jake was like just mention me, like tell her that I'll vouch for you and oh, totally yeah, I'm not, I'm not pretentious.
Speaker 1:It is. It's kind of funny to me, just like going back to something that you said, where you're like you know I kind of need a certain song structure to connect and you also really enjoyed first seems forever and drumming with Steve who was in the band and he, like the way he drums stylistically is I think I said this to Jake to hope he doesn't get my friends and I used to call him the caveman just because like the way he would just like bet, like just hit the drum so hard and just had the most unique style and was just technical and like all the time changes and things like that and further and whatnot or strong arm.
Speaker 1:Yeah you know it's like, so those I feel like those are harder songs to connect to, right, yeah, but at the same time, you know it's I don't know what was that experience like for you, because if you connect more to songs that maybe have a particular song structure, is that the type of music that you connect to the most, like time changes and different things like that.
Speaker 2:Or it really isn't. Usually it depends, you know, it depends on the band and, like, sometimes, the vocals. You know, yeah, I don't know, I can't really like pinpoint exactly what it. Is. That just easier for me to connect with things that have like pretty basic not basic, that's the wrong word Just more, just easier structure, right, so you're talking more like yeah, a, b, a, c, or you know like verse chorus bridge type.
Speaker 2:Kind of. But I, but I have found myself, you know, being able to adjust to that. You know there are things with some of our songs that are not like typical for me, but it's fun. It's a fun challenge, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'm not completely close off to it anymore. You know, I think just at that time like it was easier for me to just like sing along to things. And if I can't really sing along because I'm a singer, so it's like I feel like I naturally want to sing along to something. So if I can't, it's like hard for me to listen to it repetitively. Yeah, so, yeah. So I can't really say that there's just one kind of like style or music. Yeah, it's hard to say, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I mean, just how did you end up getting hooked up? Or how did rocking horse winners start?
Speaker 2:So rocking horse was. They already had kind of a thing going and then they were looking for a singer and I think they had heard me on the Megan Andes cover song and they asked me to try out. So they gave me a song, they gave me lyrics, and that was actually elementary. That was the first song that I ever tried out with them rocking horse winner and then we went from there. That's basically how to happen. I didn't know any of those guys really. They were in the scene, they were like adjacent to my friends, but I didn't really know them. Yeah, so that's how that happened and then I just went from there.
Speaker 1:And how many tours I like. How many albums did you guys end up doing and fully remember and then like how many?
Speaker 2:So we had two albums State of Feeling, Concentration, that was that's. I mean, I hate to say, but that's like. Some of my favorite songs are on that album. That was our first album, and the second album was Horizon on Equal Vision.
Speaker 1:Huh, why do you hate to say that?
Speaker 2:Oh no, I mean there's just something about there was like a certain charm to the first album whereas like the second one just became a little more produced and clean and so it changed a little bit. But they both, they both will always have like a special place for me. And then tour wise, like we did a bunch of different. I mean we did like a week or so or two weeks my husband has a better memory with this stuff but I think it was like a week or so with the weaker thens we did a tour with. I know, I know so good.
Speaker 1:I love John K Samson to his like. Solo stuff is amazing as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so awesome. And then we actually we did some. We did a tour with the Coed and Cambria because they were label mates and some of my favorite memories from that tour actually and some not so great. And we did a couple of like East Coast tours. You know we did. We didn't do a ton, but but I remember some of these shows were very special. So, yeah, we played South by Southwest.
Speaker 1:Was a big one, we did these like yeah, yeah that was the last one. How did you get hooked up with Equivision?
Speaker 2:I think we sent them the first album and they heard it and they decided to sign us and then we recorded the second album and that I guess you know. That's kind of how it happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's kind of a blur, but that's like what I remember.
Speaker 1:Do you remember sending it off to any other labels as well?
Speaker 2:I'm sure we did, but I don't really remember. I don't think that I actually was involved too much in that. I think it was mostly the guitar player at the time with actually submitting the album. But I'm sure we did. I can't remember which labels I think, like probably we tried Big Wheel, yeah, and labels like that. So and Fueled by Ron Right.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, so yeah. Because, the big ones that were like what Vagrant Equivision Victory.
Speaker 2:D-Belm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, huge one Then. And then you had Tooth and Nail, obviously, and yeah, I don't know if around that time.
Speaker 1:They had gotten a hold of Takehold records at that point. But yeah, because that's, I mean, just a lot of bands. When Brandon ended up, I think, buying out Takehold and you know, they had 238, they had Hope's Fall, they had, you know, a bunch of under oath at the time, maybe, maybe not, but they were kind of like a more underground. So those were like the major indie labels that I can remember at that time and so, obviously, like one of the other things that you're known for is singing on dashboards. You know, was it first record or was it the EP, or was it places you've come from First and second album, okay, and then and Swiss, swiss Army.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, okay yeah, did you have any idea? Like, should you have any idea that Chris was gonna like blow up that big?
Speaker 2:Not at all. I mean I knew I loved it and it was good, but I had no idea. I mean I feel like I was so naive at that time like I had no idea what was going on.
Speaker 2:Just kind of things would come along, I would do them and I loved it, but I wasn't thinking like big picture, so no, I mean, I didn't have any reason not to think that would happen, but I didn't realize you know how crazy it was until, like we played, we played a festival with dashboard and I sang with him age six racer and when the audience was singing along, that was the first time I ever experienced that, really, and it was crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:When they were singing my parts I was like this is so weird.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's so real experience? Yeah.
Speaker 2:It was yeah.
Speaker 1:I was pretty awesome. I'm assuming, like did you have a good friendship with Chris, or was it more like a working friendship, or you know, like what was?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had a friendship. We had a friendship for a long time and I still, you know, every once in a while touch base, you know, but yeah, we definitely had a friendship at that time. It was, yeah, it was a crazy time. It was so weird. That was Mack Rock actually. I just remember that we played together. Yeah, yeah, it was pretty crazy.
Speaker 1:Because he was like dual, doing further at the time probably and dashboard right, because I remember I've seen some sets where he would like cornerstone and some like that where further would be playing and then they would transition. He'd do a song and then they trans transitioned into New Year's project and like from there or something like that. So it was kind of like a dual type thing that was going on and obviously, like I mean, I could imagine seeing a friend explode that big. I've actually really been surprised at this answer because that other people I've asked to about bands who have gotten bigger that there never seems to be this sense of like, I don't know, like, not like envy, but like there never seems to be this sense of like God, I wish, I wish that it happened to me. Like they've all everybody's just kind of been like no, I think it's really great for them.
Speaker 1:Like I remember, like especially when I you know obviously we're talking about like Chris or a co-heater I knew those bands that blew up. I forget who I was talking to. They were like yeah, I remember it was Jake. He was like. I walked by like a news stand and I just saw like Chris on the front. You know the cover of like Rolling Stone or something, and I was like that's awesome. But like there's a part of me that would be like you're kidding me, like like when you have your own, you know you, like you have your own, you're like I couldn't have happened to a nicer guy but like God damn it, if, if, if, why couldn't have happened to me too, like type of thing. So like I was just kind of wondering what it was like to see that take off and being a part of it, but maybe not taking off as much as you know Chris or other people that you know.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, at the time, like with Rocking Horse, we had a lot of pressure on ourselves. We wanted to make it a full time thing. You know it. Just that we were young and, you know, made mistakes and stuff. So but yeah, sure, at that time, like I would have loved to think for things to get to that level, but also there's a certain amount of pressure that goes along with that that I don't know that I would have been able to handle. You know, I think things happen the way they happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, you know, and I don't know that I'd be doing this now, at this time, you know, if that, if things had gone differently, you don't have no idea. So, you know, it's weird to see a friend, you know, do that well, after having no idea that it was going to get to that level. Sure, it's always strange, yeah, you know. But there's no, there's no level of like jealousy or anything like that. It's just, you know, happy for him, that it, that it was received, you know, received that will, by everybody.
Speaker 1:Are there any? Are there any bands that you wish you could have toured with that you didn't?
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm sure there are. Yeah, I mean there's so many bands like now that I would love to tour with. I mean, at the time it's weird because, like I didn't feel like there were many like female fronted or female singers that like we got to really play with or tour with at the time and that would have been cool to do, you know you know, I was gonna actually I was like gonna ask you, like my next question was going to be like what was it like to be a female in that scene?
Speaker 1:I mean, like literally the only other bands that personally I can think of that was around at that time was probably like Element 101, which was like a band on tooth and nail and like I have you know, I grew up with some of those guys and and and whatnot, and like Chrissy was the only person like there just wasn't a lot and so you're in this scene and like there has to be an awareness inside of yourself. That's kind of like this is I don't like I'm just surrounded by guys all the time and like that, yeah, what was that like for you? Or just being a female in that scene and being a you know, in a band.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wasn't afraid of it or anything. I wasn't, I didn't feel intimidated or anything. I feel like I was just in my own world, you know, just doing it. But yeah, sure, I mean, there were not a lot of. We were put on shows with a lot of like heavier bands, stuff like that at the time. Even there were some softer bands that we probably would have mixed well with. I feel like a lot of times, because we were on equal vision, we were put with a lot of heavy bands.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So it wasn't only the contrast of like the sexes, it was also the contrast of the music, you know.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So that was always odd and now I think that's awesome. But I think at the time that part was a little bit like I don't know, are people into this Cause, like they're so different from these bands? I mean, we had like a little bit of a pop thing too at the time. You know it wasn't like so yeah, like I didn't feel intimidated or like what's going on, I'm the only female here. Wherever there were, you know, females at the shows, you know, and stuff like that. So, but it is strange looking back, you know, it was mostly males, I would say probably.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause I mean, like I think I don't, I don't know it. Just you know the time period that we live in now versus like how, how aware I don't know how aware one one can be of their gender, or like it's there, but maybe it's not as big of a like. It was a different time period too, so I don't really you know, I don't necessarily know what I'm trying to say, but like, yeah, it sounds to me like what you're saying was like it was there in the back of my head, but not, it wasn't at the forefront of things.
Speaker 2:I wasn't like, like it wasn't like a dominating thought, like what am I doing here? You know it was like, like, how did I get here you?
Speaker 2:know, the only part of it that was strange was that we were playing with heavy bands all the time and like, and that's just how it was. Then it was like you would have a soft band and a heavy band, acoustic, it didn't matter. There would be, like, a punk band and a hardcore band and metal. You know, like it didn't matter, it wasn't like the separation, you know, whereas now, like, it'll be a metal show, It'll be a punk show.
Speaker 2:Like you know, although we are playing with Mad Ball next month, so that's a little strange.
Speaker 1:So yeah.
Speaker 2:So I mean it's, it's getting back to that, I think, a little bit. You know that kind of like mixed thing. But yeah, it wasn't like a dominating thought. I didn't feel like it mattered really too much to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is I mean I think it's pretty awesome which means that you felt comfortable around the people you were with. And it wasn't like a huge deal, what you know you, when did you? How did rocking horse winner like end, like what was the deciding point where you guys were like, yeah, this is, it's, it's time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we had a bad final tour and there was some bickering and silly stuff. Like I said, we were young and stupid and the axle on our van broke. So we were like we had to make it to like a gas station and have it repaired, and it was crazy. That was like the most stressful thing ever. And then after that, I think there was just like we were tired, we were done, we were fried. You know, we had put so much pressure on ourselves to like make it a full time thing that when that tour ended we were like you know what? This isn't working anymore.
Speaker 2:And after that we had South by Southwest already scheduled. So EVR convinced us. They were like, can you guys please just like get it together and do this one last show? So we flew there. We had like no sleep and we flew there to to South by Southwest. We played the show. There was like an article written about how disjointed we looked, how unhappy we looked, which is unfortunate, but that's what happened. And so after that we were like, yeah, we can't do this anymore. You know, and it's a shame, you know, I mean, looking back, I wish we had just pushed through it or maybe taken a little bit of a break and gone back to it, but it's just how it kind of fell apart, you know. But who knows, I always wonder, I'll always wonder what could have happened after that, you know.
Speaker 1:I think like there is obviously like when you think from a different perspective, the idea that you're taking I'm assuming you were in your 20s- then you're taking young 20-somethings, right, and there's a part like your 20s are just chaos in general, Like you know.
Speaker 1:And then you're you're wrapping yourself with like a people, but you're also in like different personalities, and then like in a business situation and then like literally, like I would look at it now and say there is survival, like right, like you're literally just trying to freaking eat something, sleep somewhere good, make sure you get to the next show. And, like you know, we look at that sometimes and we're like oh, it was my 20s, it was crazy and I was like just fucking chaos, like how can you expect anybody to survive? Like it's a survival condition, right? Like I don't know if you have kids, but like I am in survival mode like 90% of the time, you know, and I'm like I'm just trying to get some sleep, I'm trying to get them fed, like, and that's just like it's crazy that the amount of pressure that must have been on. And then you're just like literally in your body, in a sense of like I don't have sleep, I barely ate anything. Like we drive six hours so that we can do something I love for like an hour maybe and then move on to the next place, like the fact that any band survives that without especially in like the van touring scenario is just, I don't know, unbelievable.
Speaker 1:And I remember I was talking, there's a guy named Jimmy. This band I like called Pull Bear Club, and he was just around my age, which is like 40, but first the end he was just like I just remembered to pray. He was like I just felt like all my friends and like wow, I was in a van you know, and like that was just amazing.
Speaker 1:He's like, literally, I just wanted a nine to five job and like I put all my and Josh said this too he was like I just put all my shit away and it was like I'm not doing this anymore, like I can't even pick up a guitar, you know, and so it's. I think it's interesting to come back in a sense of like an adult perspective in saying like well, I wish I knew what I need now, but you didn't, right. And then you're just like in survival and it's like you're doing the best that you can in the most chaotic situation. Right, yeah, that you can, and the fact that you're alive is probably testament enough to the sub thing. You know, yeah, and I'm sure, like when you guys play shows now, there's probably a different aspect of like maturity or just grace to it. Maybe that wasn't there back then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's definitely more professionalism, there's more appreciation that we get to keep doing it. We get to do it, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's still stress. You know it's not easy to do it, but at that time, like we didn't have a manager, we were doing everything ourselves.
Speaker 2:We had kind of a makeshift manager and like so we were handling all the money, we were driving. We had to figure out hotels if we didn't have anywhere to stay. If we stayed with someone we have some pretty bad stories from that too, staying with people, some crazy tour stories, and so, like you said, we were just trying to sleep and eat. If you stayed with someone, they wanted to talk all night and pick your brain.
Speaker 2:And there's nothing wrong with that. I get it. They were excited, but at the same time we're like, fuck, I just need like a few hours because we have a drive tomorrow. That's almost the whole day, you know.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So it was hard to like keep up all of that, you know yeah. Keep all of that up, juggle all of that, and then you're trying to please the label, you're trying to please the fans. You're trying to write good music. You're trying not to do anything. You know that's controversial, you know it's just like anything, right, right. So, like you know, this is like any job.
Speaker 1:Daily life yeah.
Speaker 2:It's life, you know it's life to the extreme, I guess, you know, like a microcosm, so yeah. So that's what it is, you know. And now I think, just like when we do things, we appreciate it a little more. We're like we get to play tonight, like that's awesome, you know. Yeah, and that's why I said like now if we play, we make sure we're on time with professional, you know, try to treat people with respect, you know. And but that's why I said like I kind of take stock of, like what's going on out there when we're playing everyone's a while, if I can, because I don't know if I get to do it the next time, you know Right.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's like a moment of I guess presence right, yeah, yeah, moment of clarity, yeah. And you know Rocking Horse winner ends and what goes on after that. Like, are you still involved in? Like I know you're involved in music today, but I mean like there's a obviously a long time period between you know, Rocking Horse winner and then Darling Fire and like.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry if I don't know this, but I wasn't aware of any bands that you were in in between. I'm sure you probably did some music in between there, but like were you still actively involved in music?
Speaker 2:I was Nothing that was like as as a pro I guess, nothing that was like a career type of situation or anything like that. You know, it was like I. You know I joined some guys that were in Miami and we wrote some music together a little bit and or I wrote the vocals for some of it, and so we did that and I was called Popford and that was like nothing like this band or Rocking Horse, and and then I would do backup when I was asked to do that. I would do things here and there. I sang something for Al City when I was asked to do that, and that's really it, like I didn't really put everything into it again. I guess that maybe there was a little bit of fear that if I did like it was going to frustrate me again and I would just give up. You know so, so you know do what safe right Like what?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, you know like as a hobby, you know, not as much as not not as serious, you know. So that's what I kind of did my husband, who was in Rocking Horse also, geronimo, he sold all of his equipment and his face and everything after Rocking Horse. He was done completely. So we so not until this band. We decided to write music together.
Speaker 1:No, so that's okay. So you guys started the Darling Fire. I mean, first of all, what's it like working musically with your husband? Yeah, and and were, were you guys a couple of two while you were in Rocking Horse?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean talk about another added layer of pressure too.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, I left that out.
Speaker 1:You're right Turing with your husband and trying to not fight, you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And and then trying not to keep that like separate from the other guys, you know, like trying not to be like us against them. You know that was difficult too, you know, and trying to be fair, you know. So yeah, it's, but it's awesome. I mean, we we don't always agree on things when we're writing music, but we get there, we get to that place, you know. So it's like you try to keep that part of your relationship separate from the music part of it. He can, you know, yeah, um, but yeah it's, but it's obviously convenient because we feel like writing anything, we just go in there and do it.
Speaker 2:You know like before, before this, we were working on a song actually, so that's awesome.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's also. It's like a two sides of the coin. It feels like it could be really productive and really like awesome and also a nightmare for other people you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like it could go one of two ways. Like you know, it kind of feels like creativity clashing or like working kind of in our harmonious state or just in the in, just like a concept of like a partnership right Versus my idea, versus your idea, and you know those different types of things that get involved in relationships. But, um, yeah, so you guys started the Darling Fire and how did that kind of unfold? Was it just like, hey, we had this idea, let's reach out to these people? Like, like, how did that all come together?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, we just decided to like start writing music. You know, my, I had, uh, my husband actually recommended somebody that he worked with to teach me guitar, and so that's how that all started. And I started learning guitar a little bit for the first time and, uh, and he would come over that and that actually is now our second guitar player, Mike Um, so he would come over and teach me guitar. I would make dinner and then my husband saw me learning and he was like you know what? I really want to get back into guitar, because that's like the first thing he did before base for rocking horse.
Speaker 2:Um, so that's how that all started and he, you know, started writing. He was like, let's, you know, we just decided to start writing together, I don't know. And then we started to learn how to record it and we recorded our first song, which sounds nothing like we sound now. And, uh, once we had a song that we were like, okay, this could actually be something. Should we do this? Should we try to like make this into a band? And we decided to just try it and see what happens. And that's when we reached out to Steve and it went from there and uh, yeah, so it's pretty crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you guys have stuff in the works now? I know Steven announced that he was leaving, and do you? Do you have somebody who's replaced or you guys working on anything new?
Speaker 2:Yes, we have a John Lane replaced him. Um, so we started working on new music. We already have a couple of songs written. We're working on another one now and, um, yeah, so we're seeing, we're. You know, we just keep writing and just see where it goes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I forget like what. What label are you guys on?
Speaker 2:I have done it Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know nothing about that label, but it.
Speaker 2:You have to check it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what also feels like super interesting too, that the I have a lot of conversations about just what the scene was, versus like like how music gets out now and like how sometimes it feels that there is just this glut of music, that like it, where things used to be promoted and done in different ways. And you know, I like the older I get, the more I stick to what I know Like like my, you know like my friends and I just kind of joke sometimes or just like I don't know. I'm just kind of stuck in like 2000s, you know like 2003, music wise, and it's just what I I love to listen to in general, but there's so much to consume out there now it just kind of it feels daunting to try and find new music. So staying in the same genre kind of feels, you know, interesting. I'm just kind of like obviously labels are good for the idea of being able to fund your album and kind of get like like that promotion. Was there ever a point where you guys wanted to just self release or just yeah?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like it's easier to reach a wider audience when you're on a label. I think it's like you said. There's so much on the market. You know people can just record self release. They can put out a song here and a song there. You know there's so much content just in general with everything, not just music.
Speaker 1:Right, it's overwhelming yeah.
Speaker 2:You know it's overwhelming. It's like going to the supermarket and they're like a thousand types of cereal. It's like I don't even know where to start.
Speaker 1:Right, just give me Rice Krispies or generic brand Rice Krispies, yeah.
Speaker 2:Exactly, exactly. So, of course, it's always going to be easier to stick with what you know. Yeah, you know, I was doing that also, and it's kind of fun sometimes to like go out of your comfort zone and find something new. So, yeah, there's a total like crazy amount of music out there, so it's hard to break through the noise you know at any time for anybody you know, in any genre, I think. I think it does help to have a label to help you unless you have, you already have like a, you know, a long career to fall back on, you know, to pull from for new listeners or for listeners that are loyal to you. It might be easier in our case because we had been out of the scene for so long. We wanted to like reach more people, and it's not easy to do when you're kind of new and technically, I feel like we're still we're still reaching new people all the time, you know.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, yeah, sorry, I'm just thinking to myself. I wonder, like, is there some you know something that you would? What would you tell yourself during your rocking horse winner early phases? Like if you could go back and speak to that person, like what would you want them to know? I suppose, like it could be. I mean, obviously I don't want to get like too personal, but like you know whether that's music wise, or just like what would be a message to you that you would love to tell that person?
Speaker 2:Oh I would say fuck it, just do the best. I would say, just, you know, don't be afraid and just do it. You know, just do you know, go all in. I think I was like distracted just by life in general and being young and wasn't really like living in the moment at all, you know, and it's easy for me to say now at my age, but I think back then I was like just kind of floating along like letting things happen instead of taking control of it.
Speaker 1:you know, and that's probably part of the demise of the band, and I would say fuck it, just do it and don't be afraid you know, yeah, that's super interesting, Cause I think I feel like, yeah, it sounds like what you're saying is that fear was a part of the floating was kind of like that.
Speaker 1:Like again maybe this concept, I don't know my friend, Joe, yesterday, was talking about the idea of you were who you needed to be at that moment, you know, and like the idea of should have and could have and all that stuff is like you just are who you need to be at that moment or who you think you need to be at that moment.
Speaker 1:You're kind of shaped by the moment and you know, sometimes there's a lot of, like you said, just like fear involved and so how to coping with that fear or that survival? You know, Like when I talk with people who are traumatized or, you know, have to float through the world, like they're floating because that's like just what they need to be at that moment, you know for the survival or to move through things. You know, and it's like once you get that, you look back on that time and to have grace for yourself a little bit in the sense of like that was fucking crazy. Like you know, like could I have handled it any other? Like now, I could you know, but I had to go through a certain process to learn that in my life. Right Like you, can't ask your 20 year old self to be who you are now right.
Speaker 1:But you can, but you can sure as hell wish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well, a shit ton has happened since then. So, like you know, I've learned a lot. I'm still learning, I'm still learning, I'm always learning. I don't think you ever are done learning and you, even when you, by the time you die, I think you're still not done learning honestly. So I'm always learning. And it's not to say that there's no fear anymore. You know, there's always gonna be a certain level of stage fright or fear that you're not doing the right thing, or how does this look, you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like do people like this? You know that kind of thing. It's always gonna be like that and I think if there isn't, that's not good, like you should have a little bit of questioning or not settling Like it's not good enough.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Because if it is good enough and you feel like well, then I feel like that's a problem, honestly. Yeah, If you feel like you've you know, if you feel like you've stopped learning or you stopped growing or you've, then it's like what's the point of continuing? I think you need that little bit of struggle to keep you going and, like, keep you alive, yeah yeah. I come from a little that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I come from you know. It's interesting because, like, I come from a religious background and a lot of the bands that I were into like held similar beliefs or just like within that kind of you know framework or whatever and watching I don't know, yeah, like that's a whole different world too, like an older conversation. But I kind of feel that way in my own like theological perspective of things that, like I had a pastor one time say like the moment that you think you understand what anything, or you think you understand God or what is to be true, that's the moment you need to like flip everything again and just like expand your mind, expand your knowledge, and if you believe in an infinite being, then there's nothing that you can actually particularly know. It's like you have to keep learning, you have to keep knowing and searching right. And I remember I was doing this camp and it was for kids whose parents or caregivers had had cancer or had passed away from cancer, and so I was doing a mental health thing there.
Speaker 1:But we went to this camp. That was basically a Jewish camp but it was like for, you know, anybody could come and I almost ended up working for this organization. But like remember, on the wall since it was Jewish camp, it just said, it said something to the effect of like to be a Jewish, to question, right, and like I was like what a beautiful sentiment in that. Like to learn, examine, like fired, like in this life, right Versus again, just kind of like that's the hard thing, right, it's easy to stick to what you know, even about yourself, and the older you get to it's easier Like to kind of like say like maybe I don't really know what's going on and I find myself being more and more disconnected from, like the youth that I serve, and it's harder you know what I mean Like to not be the like old guy yelling at the cloud, like, especially on like certain social progressive issues.
Speaker 1:I look back at wherever like you stand on the issues. I look back and I'm like the views that my parents held about, like you know, issues about LGBTQ and stuff like that, and I'm like I don't wanna be in that place when I'm that old on like newer, more progressive issues. And so I always have to question myself of like, am I just sticking to what I know or am I willing to have my mind, be open and learn from people younger than me and you know, in that continual kind of process. Yeah, I don't know it's a beautiful thing, but it has to be like an intentional thing too, you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just easy to stick with what you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's too comfortable, you know it's comfortable to just keep doing what you're doing and not challenging yourself or not. You know thinking different ways or listening to other perspectives and stuff you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's really way easier now to be siloed with the world that we live in and what your perspective is and you know the life is some right, you know, like there's very few things that are black and white. Yeah, you know, and I think that's an issue, that therapy with people is this idea where either something is all good or all bad, or you know, and really it's a disservice because there's so much nuance in ourselves and like in the world, you know, and that's where real conversation happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm just, I'm curious, like now for you. Obviously you're doing the band stuff, but like what, what's, I don't know what's rocking your world, what do you like to do? What is, what are you passionate about?
Speaker 2:Writing. You know I started writing recently and I haven't hadn't done that since I was young.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I love writing. Now it's just another thing that I can sit down and do and just everything else just disappears Like it's. I just get lost in that. So writing like fiction, you know, yeah, that's I love doing that. It's the other thing that I love Short stories, or Short stories, right now mostly.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know like, yeah, short stories, scripts even Mostly like sci-fi, thriller type of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd love to send you. My best friend is a professor at the University of Arizona, but he's also a published author and has like a collection of short stories.
Speaker 2:Awesome.
Speaker 1:I'm super proud of him. We've been friends since eighth grade and he's encouraged me to write stuff too. Like I'll send him something with like so much timidity and he'll be like this is great, Like just you know, maybe fix this or that or the other, but he's a phenomenal writer. I'll have to send you some of his stuff because it's published and they're short, yeah, but they're really.
Speaker 1:They always depress me for some reason I don't know, but the reason no but, the reason I say that, though, is because he writes from the perspective a lot of the times of like people we've known in our lives, or like we grew up in a really small town in New Jersey, and so there's a lot of people that he takes things from, or instances, or parts of their lives and parts of our lives, and I'm just like at the end, I'm like dude, that was, I loved it, but, man, like I feel really screwed up after this Cause, I can see the elements of, of like our teenage selves, and the stories of like the kids in our 60 person grade, you know, type thing. But it's wonderful. It's a wonderful like creative outlet. What do you do with the stories? I've had a few published.
Speaker 2:Awesome, yeah, and you know one of mine was a tragedy actually yeah, that was like you're saying don't read it.
Speaker 2:I'm just gonna Exactly, but I think, like you know, it's just like writing lyrics. I mean, I'm pulling from life, I'm pulling from experiences, you know, feelings I have about things and putting them in there, and it's the same thing with writing, you know, and same and also with writing, you know, I'm still learning how to do that, I'm still growing with that. But, yeah, I've had a few things published it and I find that I love writing scripts now, like short scripts, I wrote something that's kind of like almost like a Twilight Zone. Oh, okay, can I just tell you something really quick.
Speaker 1:This is like a short Sure. I'm literally doing writing an EP. I sent Jake some of the songs to him. I'm doing an EP, okay, of songs that are all based on Twilight. Zone episodes Listen every New Year's Eve.
Speaker 2:I watched the Twilight Zone marathon, right of course, because it continues, and continues and continues Exactly.
Speaker 1:I've been doing that forever.
Speaker 2:I mean it feels like a Twilight Zone, just that. I watched that every year at the same time we always had.
Speaker 1:It was the 4th of July and New Year's Eve they would always have, and I think it was like ABC or I know it was like, yeah, it's on Sci-Fi now, sci-fi channel. It used to be on channel right it's on Sci-Fi now it used to be on channel Levin in New York. I remember All right. Well then, you have to give me, like, your top five episodes.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's hard to say and I can't remember the names, but I can tell you what some of the plot was. I love the one with the mannequins.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:The mannequins, the woman who's a? Mannequin, I love the one that has the mother from the witch, where the UFO is actually landed on an alien planet and it's actually us oh. It's actually the US. It's a UFO shaped like a flying saucer, but it's actually the US. They don't reveal that until the. I love that episode. It's a black and white episode. It's like one of the earlier ones I'm trying to think the plastic surgery one. Of course that's classic.
Speaker 1:Right, that's one of the episodes I'm doing.
Speaker 2:Nice, love it. Yeah, I love the one with the fortune teller machine and they keep asking it questions and it keeps spitting out the answers. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, I can't remember the names, though. And then the one with the time stopping, I think it's the he breaks his glasses, or something. Yes, oh, okay, yep, I have a song about that too, you guys.
Speaker 1:I think it's called Time Enough or like. Enough Time. I think it's called.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you would think I would know this one. Now Watch this.
Speaker 1:No the episodes. They're different right, like you just remember, like, oh, the guy with the glasses, and just like there was time, now time. And then it ends up being the guy from Rocky.
Speaker 2:Yes, the guy from Rocky I would have to go.
Speaker 1:So I'd have to go with that one. I'd have to go with, I think it's called Terror at 20,000 Feet, which is the William.
Speaker 2:Chanter one where he sees the guy out in the wings?
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, there's one called the Dummy, where this Phantroquus dummy is like alive and that the ending has this creepy. It's just screwed with me as a kid but I loved it To serve man's, a classic one. I love that. Yeah, gosh, that one before it. And then I want to say, oh, the talking, tina, yes.
Speaker 2:Talking Tina is creepy. Yep, I know when you say the names I remember.
Speaker 1:There's one that's really interesting that I wrote. I think it's called like phone to heaven or something like that, where this kid is talking on the phone and the parents are like who is he talking to? And he's like I'm talking to grandma and it's like he's dead.
Speaker 2:Like, I remember that one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love all those classic ones when I find somebody who my friend and I always joke that we're big Seinfeld. My friend Ted and I were big Seinfeld people and there's this. Yeah, there's this, this part where Jerry's talking and he's like it's like that Twilight Zone episode where the guy wakes up and everybody else is different and they're like which? Which one was that?
Speaker 2:He's like, I don't know, they were all like that, like yeah, so like, how did you just really quickly I'll let you go soon that the process for getting your stuff out there as far as writing was, was it just you were just submitting to journals, or yeah, I just I you know it was suggested to me to submit my a short sci-fi that I wrote to this one publication and then I tried another one that also published it, and basically I mean, I just did a little bit of research to see you know who would publish these and that's how they got published.
Speaker 2:And one of them I was surprised, you know, it was like kind of a thriller with a twist at the end, like a little story, and I was surprised that one got published. But it took a while to find out. But basically, yeah, it's just submitting on, you know, online to see who will accept it. Yeah, I didn't try many places, I just kind of like honed in on a couple of things and then did that, but yeah, there's a certain amount of like, oddity to, or just like, vulnerability and submitting those things right.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, of course, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Cause you're like is this good enough? I don't know. We'll see what they say.
Speaker 1:Right, and then like when you, if you are rejected, whether you're like fuck you or you're like like maybe I'm not good enough, I don't know. Like is that weird kind of creativity in and of itself, is that weird process right Of like putting yourself out there and seeing like it's an insanely vulnerable thing to do, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And like. There's comfort, I think, in the, the knowing that like somebody is going to like this, like some, but like somebody will be drawn at some point to it, you know, and then gaining that confidence of like, do they really like it or are they just telling me that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Like whenever I've I've submit, I've like submitted, you know, let Jake hear some of my stuff and they're like, oh, it's really good. And I'm like I don't know if it's any good. Like, just just give me a critique or something. Cause, like I think, the creative processes. You become super, super critical, especially if you're self recording or you're like self analyzing, where you're just like I don't know whether this is good or not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know and that happens with us here, cause we'll write something like in a lab and we're like is this good, I don't know. And so the last song that we finished you know we did a little run with the span spotlights and the last song that we finished, um, we brought that with us on the trip and we played it for the other guys and they were like this is our favorite darling fire song we've ever heard.
Speaker 2:And we were like, okay, good, because we weren't sure if you'd like it or not. It's too different, it's too weird, I mean I don't know. For us it's like, you know, we're listening to that song like a thousand times before we let anyone hear it. Um, because we'll program the drums in there and stuff you know, just to have something to write to. And then we let the other guys hear it and it's like do you like this? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Right, right.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so that's that having that validation is awesome yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm kind of wondering too, maybe like so some of my, my, my favorite albums like I love Cody and Camry's like first album is like one of my favorite albums and like, yeah, a lot of the earlier things are just like bands like their first records are the things you fall in love with, I, I, and I wonder if that's part of it, because there's a rawness there that like it's not overproduced, it's not, you're not thinking as much, you're writing this shit. And then the pressure of do I have to replicate what I just did and please even more people now, like now I have a label and now I have, like you know, like a huge fan base, like that there's a rawness that seems to be on some of the earlier records for people that doesn't necessarily that that is, I don't know for me personally, just like on the, on maybe a second or third album, that it's like so produced and so like you can get in your head too much about it, right, yes?
Speaker 2:Yes, well, that's what happened with Rocking Horse is like we we did the first album. We kind of did it like a little more raw. There's a certain sound on on that album and a certain charm that was there. Yeah, and that's because James Wissner the producer he was, he was, you know, still kind of new ish at that time. So by the time we got to the second album, you know, like I said, I love how it came out and everything. It's just that it was we did the takes, like even the vocals, we did the takes like a hundreds of times. So it was like it kind of strips away and makes it a little less raw.
Speaker 2:you know it strips away some of the emotion because you're like so focused on getting it perfect and ah, you know whereas with this band, you know we just go through, like with Jay Robbins with the first album for this band, you know he had me just do like a few takes all the way through the song and then he just take the best parts of it and put it together.
Speaker 2:It wasn't like do that again a hundred times you know, obviously, if there's something that didn't sound right, he would be like ah, you know, usually it was me. I'm like I want to do that again. I feel like I can do that better, you know, but there was something to be said for not doing it like thousands of times. And of course, you know there's different. There's like a different expectation, depending on the label, for what kind of quality they want or if they want that rawness. But I like to have that little bit of rawness in there. You know, I like it to be less produced like that. You know I like it to sound clean, but not so clean that it's like stripped away.
Speaker 1:Right, right, you know, I've always heard that.
Speaker 2:You know, at least with the producing process or engineering process with James was both great and unique because of the location it was so yeah, so the first album that we did, and in fact even the vacant Andy's song, the cover song I sang in a closet that he had, you know, and it was awesome. It was awesome. There was something that there was a charm to that you know. So, yeah, there's something about that also, the space that you record and makes a difference also.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm going to let you go here and honestly, it was. It was really great talking to you. I really you have a genuineness to you. That is really awesome that I can tell when I'm when I'm talking with you. Not that other people haven't had it, but it's. It's been a real pleasure for me to talk to you and you know I will let you know when the episode comes out. I'm backlog and about to start a new job and and things are kind of crazy, so I'm not necessarily sure when I get it out. I've got like two episodes in front, but thank you for just being vulnerable and sharing your life and and sharing those things with, like literally a total stranger like that. Sure, yeah, that's really awesome. Thank you, and again, you don't have to do it now, but if there's anybody that you would be like that would, I think they might enjoy this or they, you know, would be down to do it. Please just just let me know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you should try Susie from Poga. She's a singer of Poga who's been here. They were out. They actually were on one of the emo diaries.
Speaker 1:Oh nice.
Speaker 2:If you remember that. Yeah, yeah yeah, so they're out there. Their band, I think, broke up just before rocking horse got together or something like that, so her voice I loved at the time. She was another band called Maccabees, and before Pogo, I believe, and I think she would be a good person to interview, definitely.
Speaker 1:Is she somebody that you're friends with or as a she's really cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we're, we. They're from Florida also another Florida band, and yeah, we've. We've played with them a few times and we know them, you know. So I think they're good. I don't know if you hear my dog whining.
Speaker 1:No, I'm listening because I'm like half waiting for my kid to open the door.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that's okay, I'm hearing.
Speaker 1:So if you see me like looking that way, it's because of like that's okay, that's okay. Hear him like rustling with you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's okay. Anyway, I think she'd be good yeah.
Speaker 1:And again, I'm, I'm, I'm so thankful to be able to talk to you and I hope you enjoyed talking to as well, yeah, it was great.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:I try and not ask the usual things and try and make it a bit more like free flowing because, yeah, the millionth time.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the millionth time you want to talk about you know being on you know Chris Graves record or whatever. It's probably that's okay, yeah, it's gets old at some point. But I'm really interested in who people are now and, like you know who they've. It's more the interest of like who people were what they did and how they became and where they kind of like are now, you know yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 1:So I mean, I guess, at the very like, where can people listen to the darling fire? Where can they, you know, either download your album or do you have vinyl out, or anything like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have vinyl. The new album is Distortion, son iodine recordings. You can hear it on Spotify and Apple. We have vinyl. They still have vinyl for sale through Deathwish and, yeah, and we're going to be playing a few times next month with Mad Ball, like I said.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:So, and hopefully more, you know touring coming up.
Speaker 1:We'll work on that. Where are you playing? In Florida or?
Speaker 2:Florida.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:In Tampa.
Speaker 1:Gotcha. Yeah, all right. Awesome Julie, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Thank you have a great time.
Speaker 1:Tell your husband thank you for letting me steal you for an hour and a half. No problem, no problem you know, maybe sometime I'll get to talk to him too. Yeah, yeah, that'd be cool. Maybe we could do a couples counseling session.
Speaker 2:You'd be good if I needed it. After the stuff we've been through at this time, we might need it.
Speaker 1:Anyway, you have a great, great evening, and it was also talking to you, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you. You too, you made it. You made it very comfortable, thank you. Thank you, have a good night.
Speaker 1:You too.
Speaker 2:Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye.
Speaker 1:Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. You, you, you, we are the engines, we are the engines. You, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you.
